View Full Version : No Breed Bans in Seattle!
This makes me really steamed: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/378114_breedban08.html
For those of you who met Lola at the picnic, you can see what sweet, gentle dogs these guys can be. It really is all about the owners, not the dogs. I'm glad that people are rallying against this ludicrous proposal.
Let me know if you need anyone to rally with you.
I am not a dog person and I will totally vouch for how incredibly well behaved and well socialized Lola is.
I love Lola, I hate bad dog onwers!
While we're at it, can we ban certain humans from breeding as well?
:rolleyes:
I've been fighting this since day one. I've gotten a little behind on the information though.
I got into a SC-RE-AM-ING arguement with my now EX Farmers Insurance agent over this when I bought the house. Ho-ly cow. I thought they were going to call the police because I thought I was going to murder him. Some of the stuff he said was just enraging! They are one of the leaders in the breed ban.
Don't get me started......This whole subject makes me crazy. :mad:
Hmm...when we added the dogs to our homeowners insurance, I put that Lola was a "staffordshire bull terrier". Never heard a word about it. I guess as long as it doesn't say "pit bull" they're ok with it? Plus Loki the Malinois - dogs that are trained to take down a grown man with ease. Never heard a peep from the insurance people. Go figure. :confused:
Adams Family
09-08-2008, 18:12
This is a subject dear to my heart because of my mother’s dog.
It is so true it is NOT the dogs it is the owners.
I worked at the humane society in Tacoma for some time helping and volunteering my time and this litter of the most beautiful pit bull puppies came in I wanted them so bad – I lived in an apt. at the time and it wasn’t appropriate for me to have one but the heart still flittered for the beautiful dogs . I talked to some loved ones and talked my mom in to possibly adopting one of the babies. Went to the head at the humane society and asked about getting one in which I was informed of a law passed that all pit bulls that come in to the humane society were euthanized unless the previous owner claimed them.
I was devastated I sat in front of their cage looking at these incredible beautiful babies wonder why the HELL any one would kill these babies. I left there and never looked back but the fight in me is STILL strong and I’d love to help educate people and change some of the laws we have.
YOU NEED A FRIEND TO HOLD YOUR HAND OR LEASH I’M WITH U!
Melissa_K
09-08-2008, 18:57
I am also a 'Punish the Deed not the Breed' believer. I taught dog obedience for four years and was one of the few who would accept bully breeds as well as Akitas, Presa Canarios, Belgin Malinois.. you get the idea. In my time I had more possitively nasty Beagles, Labs, Cockers, and Chis then pits and the afore mentioned dogs. I did have many people 'refuse' my services after learning I worked with 'those evil monsters' (direct quote). Note I had INDIVIDUAL sessions with many clients, I also offered small classes two days a week and everyone was informed of what breeds would be there.
It's the owners plain and simple.
Went to the head at the humane society and asked about getting one in which I was informed of a law passed that all pit bulls that come in to the humane society were euthanized unless the previous owner claimed them.
I've never heard of that...is it a Tacoma thing? The only pits they euthanize @ the Seattle humane society are the ones that don't pass the temperament tests.
I did have many people 'refuse' my services after learning I worked with 'those evil monsters' (direct quote).
Obviously someone who had never actually interacted with any of those breeds before, and simply acting on heresay.
I hate people.... (which is why I have so many animals!! :D)
Adams Family
09-08-2008, 21:26
I've never heard of that...is it a Tacoma thing? The only pits they euthanize @ the Seattle humane society are the ones that don't pass the temperament tests.
Obviously someone who had never actually interacted with any of those breeds before, and simply acting on heresay.
I hate people.... (which is why I have so many animals!! :D)
It's Pierce County:(. I don’t believe it something they advertise but it’s a law. Also in 1969 they found Rottweiler to be used in 'gangs' and they passed a law u must be of a certain age (think it was 30?)and own a home Ect. Not sure if that law has change was in effect about 12 years or so ago.
I would like to also say I have seen small tiny dogs and cute 'poodle' type dogs bite and the owners think it’s cute. But a pit-bull in a yard with a child is horrific.
It’s like with snakes so many people that have come into Ted’s and my life think were crazy - now they all want one ( & know were crazy:D).
Treat your animal with love and respect you’re getting nothing back but kisses and a wet tongue.:p
I recall this kid beating a dog and ted freaked out he said she wouldn’t behave ... IT WAS HIM - not that poor dog!
Educate is all we can attempt to do!
bearded-one
09-08-2008, 21:42
I have a "super scary" great dane...biggest chicken in the world but it's funny how people will cross the street when they see him (all 7 months of him)
I think that the owners are the issue. The problem has been the demographic that seems to be drawn to the "tough dogs" Obviously this is a stereotype and not true for all cases but many times it seems as though pits have become the "red sports car" of the ghetto. My dog clyde has played with many well adjusted pits and pit mixes at the dog park but the one time he was attacked was also a pit mix....with an owner that had the sagging pants, sideways hat and didn't apologize for his dogs actions.
I'll admit I am predjudiced against some dogs...any dog that has an owner that looks like a twit I avoid.
BTW here's my "killer"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/crtelford/IMG_4535.jpg
I'm tearing up due to cuteness! My retinas! They Burn!
......but many times it seems as though pits have become the "red sports car" of the ghetto.......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/crtelford/IMG_4535.jpg
Not the ghetto per se, but the dog of choice for people who want to impress everybody with how dangerous and cool they are.
35 years ago it was Doberman Pinschers. The breed went all to hell because the backyard breeders were deliberately breeding for aggression, and the drug dealers and other morons wanted them that way. It took years of careful breeding by people who loved the breed to put things right. 20 years ago the same thing happened with Rottweilers, and now it's happened to Pitbulls.
The sad fact is that because of these wretched backyard breeding opportunists, there actually are a lot of Pitbulls around currently with untrustworthy temperaments. Those are the dogs that end up in the newspapers, and they make it very difficult for people who own sweet Pitbulls.
Before anyone starts yelling at me, let me say that I'm totally opposed to breed bans. I had a Bullmastiff who was the sweetest dog on this planet, and in some places they are one of the breeds that people want banned. I'm just pointing out that it's not just the individual bad owners that are at fault. When a particular breed becomes fashionable as the dog of choice for people who want a really aggressive guard dog, you end up with a lot of people stupidly breeding for high levels of aggression, and the result is a lot of puppies who get put down in the shelters.
OMG (and I don't use that acronym often!)...that pic of the dane pup and kid is soooo cute. How old is the pup now, and where do you live?! Our Dane-Lab-Pit mix is totally drawn to the danes. I would love to see how he interacted with a dane pup. :D
I just can't get over how ****ing stupid many people can be. A few months ago my husband and I were in the truck, waiting @ the light at 145th and Lake City Way. Across the crosswalk comes some ***hole and his adorable harlequin pit pup who couldn't have been more than 3 months old. He had a muzzle on, as well as a HUGE link-chain (think: hardware store, if you were looking to pull a tractor out of the mud w/ your 4x4) with a big padlock on it. I had to keep myself from jumping out of the truck right then and there and confronting the guys......but really, they looked like the kinds of dudes who would be packing (and I try really hard not to sterotype). I vowed if I ever saw them again (especially if they tied their dog up outside the 7-11 w/ no supervision) I would take their dog and RUN. Even if by force (aka kick in the pants). People were totally honking at those ***holes as they crossed the street. I was determined that if I ever saw them again and confronted them that a.) someone would get out of their car to help the skinny gal and the abused puppy against the gangstas; or b.) someone would call the police and nothing life-threatening would happen before they got there (it's Lake City, the cops are always around...). Hell...I had a plan to dial 911 as I was approaching them. Unfortunately, I never saw them again. I regret every day that I just didn't hop out of the truck and majorly disrupt traffic (to my advantage ;)) to save that poor little pit.
Again...people suck.
35 years ago it was Doberman Pinschers. The breed went all to hell because the backyard breeders were deliberately breeding for aggression, and the drug dealers and other morons wanted them that way. It took years of careful breeding by people who loved the breed to put things right. 20 years ago the same thing happened with Rottweilers, and now it's happened to Pitbulls.
And during WWII it was the German Shepherd. And during that time you had Petey from the Little Rascals (aka Our Gang) as well as Nipper the RCA dog - who were both PIT BULLS. I can't tell you how many vintage photos I've found on eBay of that time period that consists of society women and/or children with the "All American Dog"........you guessed it, the pit bull. :D
Petey- one of my favorite childhood dog stars, along with Bullet the Wonder Dog, Rin Tin Tin, Lassie, and my all time favorite, Cleo the Basset Hound.
Well, I had nothing better to do, so I thought I'd post pictures of my other favorites too.
Petey- one of my favorite childhood dog stars, along with Bullet the Wonder Dog, Rin Tin Tin, Lassie, and my all time favorite, Cleo the Basset Hound.
Heeeeee. Petey. One of the main reasons I've wanted a pit bull since my childhood. When it finally came down to me being able to get my own dog.... I had to have a pit bull. I had no rational reason why. Of course, I did a bazillion hours of homework. At the end, I wanted a pit bull more than ever before. :D
And look! Nipper! (http://notoast.net/image/rcadog.jpg) I had a vintage statue of him growing up.
And awwwwwwwwwwwww: history of Petey (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pete.php). I also grew up on re-runs of the Little Rascals. I always LOVED Petey. :D
Even better...sweetest, greatest story ever (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/sarpits.html). You have to read the whole article. :)
Pretty cute story.
You know, another thing that people don't realize about dog breeds and the bad press that some breeds get- as a breed becomes popular, it's much harder for breed clubs to protect the reputation of their breed. There are lists put out nationally and regionally of the numbers of dogs from each breed that are put down for temperament problems each year at shelters. These are the basis for the statistics people point at when they ask for breed bans. Bloodhounds, Neapolitan Mastiffs, name a breed large enough to be potentially dangerous- they each have a breed rescue that shows up at the animal shelter and bails out the unclaimed purebred dog. If that dog has a temperament problem and has to be put down, the breed club rescue does it quietly themselves and the statistic doesn't show in the official lists.
Pitbulls have become very popular, especially with that element of society that wants a "guard dog" and then doesn't spend any money on training or fences or spaying/neutering. As a result, something close to 1/2 the dogs at the shelters these days can be Pits or Pit/mixed breeds. Pitbull breed rescue can't keep up with it.
bearded-one
09-09-2008, 07:48
[QUOTE=skelegirl;23836]OMG (and I don't use that acronym often!)...that pic of the dane pup and kid is soooo cute. How old is the pup now, and where do you live?! Our Dane-Lab-Pit mix is totally drawn to the danes. I would love to see how he interacted with a dane pup. :D
QUOTE]
He will be 7 months on the 18th, we live in Tacoma. If you ever plan on making it out to steilacoom dog park let me know. We try for a couple times a week.
Serendipitously, did anyone see the front page of the PI this a.m.?
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/378246_pitbull09.html
That's really horrible. Poor woman - that had to have been terrifying.
The thing that stinks is, this has been all over the news. I really feel for that poor woman and her terrifying ordeal, but this is re-sparking talks of banning the breed.
There are so many issues surrounding this type of situation that it makes it very complicated to deal with, in my opinion.
It should be a case by case thing. Yes, there are badly bred Pits out there, which is terribly sad. But there are dogs like Lola, and I have known many other amazing Pits (and "dangerous dog breeds") that have lived to their dying day still as gentle as could be.
I just wonder what this new attack on an elderly lady is going to do to inflame the anti-Pitbull protesters.
:(
Well, this isn't promising: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008172211_pitbulls11m.html
I think the pro breed banners could use the lack of animal control officers to their advantage. Either that, or this will spark a much needed kick in the pants to the city to increase funding to animal control.
the article in the PI yesterday morning said in several places that ~1/5 dog bites/attacks in Seattle involve pitts.
this statistic would be more relevant if they also included the ratio of pitts to other breeds. pit bulls are so common here, particularly south of the city but everywhere in the region, compared to other places I have lived. I bet the ratio of pitts involved in incidents is way skewed because of this
it's the scientist in me - a statistic alone doesn't mean anything, without some additional data
Exactly. 1/5 bites result from pits, but the pit bull is in the top 3 most common breeds in Seattle. And then, you get into the whole debate as to what defines a "pit bull". Many people reporting bites from pits are reporting them as such because they looked like a pit bull.
Another interesting article here: http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/2008/09/10/pit-bull-breed-ban-versus-breed-specific-legislation/
This is the place where we took Badger to puppy class. The owner/head trainer is this awesome woman who's a pit bull advocate and a really great trainer...she really understands canine psychology. I think she makes a lot of really good points in this article.
Exactly. 1/5 bites result from pits, but the pit bull is in the top 3 most common breeds in Seattle. And then, you get into the whole debate as to what defines a "pit bull". Many people reporting bites from pits are reporting them as such because they looked like a pit bull.
I don't think it's dog bites per se that are alarming the public- I think it's the episodes of dogs, usually 2 or more together, attacking and seriously mauling or killing someone. So far, none of these outrageous attacks have been by bands of miniature Poodles or Golden Retrievers, but a disproportionately large number of them have been by certain fighting breeds or occasionally a guard breed.
Another interesting article here: http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/2008/09/10/pit-bull-breed-ban-versus-breed-specific-legislation/........I think she makes a lot of really good points in this article.
Grisha Stewart's article is excellent.
Everything she has suggested in this article would be terrific if you could find the funding for it- but in a world where many people don't even want to pay taxes to improve schools, putting a lot of money into animal control just isn't going to happen without some serious work on the part of dog lovers.
The most important thing dog advocates can do in this debate is lobby the city and county for more funding for an expanded animal control system, and be willing to make some compromises. People are backing breed bans because of the perception that they can't get animal control to respond to a problem until a tragedy has occurred. The neighbors of the woman who was attacked reported that they had complained several times about the dogs being loose and animal control had never shown up- yet the man whose loose dogs mauled the old woman was able to claim and take home the other 2 pitbulls he owned, (they had been confiscated by the police) within a short time.
Perhaps pitbulls are being unfairly targeted, perhaps there is some justification. It doesn't really matter, since it is the PUBLIC PERCEPTION, not facts, that will carry the day. Every article I've ever read about a pitbull attack, (or any dog attack, for that matter) has quoted the owner as saying that the dog was a real sweetheart, there was no warning that it would ever hurt anybody. This simply makes the public more certain that with pitbulls, they can snap in a minute without warning, so you can't trust any of them, so they should all be banned.
So far, none of these outrageous attacks have been by bands of miniature Poodles
And you know...that's just really too bad. I'd love to see that on the news! (picturing large man w/ teacup poodles attached all over him)
It doesn't really matter, since it is the PUBLIC PERCEPTION, not facts, that will carry the day. Every article I've ever read about a pitbull attack, (or any dog attack, for that matter) has quoted the owner as saying that the dog was a real sweetheart, there was no warning that it would ever hurt anybody. This simply makes the public more certain that with pitbulls, they can snap in a minute without warning, so you can't trust any of them, so they should all be banned.
That is so very true. But really, what owner is going to say, "I knew my dog was really unstable and had a penchant for lunging/spitting/barking at little old ladies, and in fact as a puppy was severely beaten by a little old lady nearly every day, but I thought they'd be ok in the front yard unattended while I was at work all day!"
And you know...that's just really too bad. I'd love to see that on the news! (picturing large man w/ teacup poodles attached all over him)
Wouldn't that be great?
It reminds me of the old Gary Larson cartoon- old lady back in the kitchen preparing doggy dinners, and in the foreground, 3 miniature white poodles- one is saying, "Yes, Fifi, that is the down side- when we kill her, the pampering will stop."
That is so very true. But really, what owner is going to say, "I knew my dog was really unstable and had a penchant for lunging/spitting/barking at little old ladies, and in fact as a puppy was severely beaten by a little old lady nearly every day, but I thought they'd be ok in the front yard unattended while I was at work all day!"
Exactly.
Even more to the point, how many owners could tell if their dog was unstable or not? For every responsible owner who trains their dog, gets it spayed or neutered, has regular vet visits, etc., there are 10 or 20 who get a dog and then leave it to it's own devices, or abandon it when they move or it gets to be a problem.
We have this idea that owning a dog is our God-given right as Americans, but very few of us want to actually put any effort into it. I'm all for starting with stricter leash/containment laws, and more staff to enforce them. Let's get the dog-catcher back on the American landscape! Once it starts costing these morons a pile of money to bail out their dogs, they'll either build stronger fences or quit keeping dogs.
One other thing I'd like to add- dog lovers, especially lovers of targeted breeds, need to work on this issue with an eye to constructive compromise and a real solution that makes the public feel safe, otherwise breed bans will be a done deal. Things are already moving in a direction that will make it very tough to own them.
If you own your house, you can't get liability insurance. If you rent, who will rent to you? I handle a rental house for my brother, who lives out of the country. I love dogs, but I wouldn't rent to anyone who owned 2 or more pitbulls, and maybe not even if they only had one. Why? Liability. I can't be there to see that they lock their gate. I'm not willing to risk the lawsuit, no matter how sweet the person claims their dogs are.
Wouldn't that be great?
It reminds me of the old Gary Larson cartoon- old lady back in the kitchen preparing doggy dinners, and in the foreground, 3 miniature white poodles- one is saying, "Yes, Fifi, that is the down side- when we kill her, the pampering will stop."
I remember that one. The one I was picturing in my head was one where 2 guys were testing some sort of suit, and it had wiener dogs hanging off all over it. I believe it was a mailman protection suit of some kind. Can't find it online, but I'm sure I have it @ home.
there were at least a few involving little dogs hanging off people. I remember both that you're discussing
Gary Larson is pretty funny. I believe he was one of the early members of PNHS- if not actually a founding member, I know he was one of the gang- he used to hang out with Ernie Wagner and Frank Slavens and those guys. (Of course, that was around 30 years ago.)
I've heard the same.
last year I asked at a Board meeting if it were possible to contact him and find out if we could put a couple comics in each NL. he was contacted by someone in the group, and apparently he would love to let us use his comics but he no longer owns the rights (there's some big multimedia something-or-other that owns them now).
it's kind of sad. that would have been a fun addition.
Remind me to tell you a funny story.
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